Interview transcript between Jun'ichi Yao and Stanley Kubrick

Transcribed by Rod Munday

This is the transcript of an interview that took place in Elstree Studios in 1980, at the time when The Shining was playing in its fist run in UK cinemas. Yun’ich Yao (矢追純一), born in 1935, is a Japanese television producer. His Wikipedia entry in Japanese describes him as is a Japanese director, TV talent, and pseudo scientist. The person we see at the start of the interview is Julian Senior, then the head of European Regional Advertising and Publicity at Warner Bros. The transcription comes from a video currently available on YouTube.

Edited version

[0’00’] Phone rings, Julian Senior picks it up.

JS – Hello.

[Operator] - Hello a call, will you accept the charges?

SJ – Yes I certainly shall.

Op – Go ahead please.

JS – Hello.

SK – Hi.

JS – Stanley … ah, I’ve been looking for you, can you talk now? Do you have a moment?

SK – Well now is the time yes.

JS – Now is the time. Hold on a second, let me pass you on to Mr Yao, the producer who’s standing with me now.

SK- Is he ready now?

JS - Yes he’s ready.

SK – OK.

JS - One second [to Mr Yao] Stanley for you.

JY – Er, Hello Mr Kubrick.

SK – How do you do.

JY - How do you do sir. My name is Jun'ichi Yao. Can I ask you some questions?

SK – Yes of course.

JY – Why did you choose a horror story for your latest movie?

SK – Well first of all let me apologise for not being able to er talk to you in person. Julian probably explained to you, I’m running around laboratories and sound studios and I’m actually calling you now from a telephone booth.

JY – Yes, I understand.

SK – Why did I choose a horror story. Um well, you could ask me that question about every film I’ve made and it would be difficult for me to answer. I read a lot and obviously I’m always looking for a film story and it’s a little bit like somebody saying why did you fall in love with your wife. Something happens when you read a story that you like, it suggests the possibilities of the film and, I thought that this plot was one of the cleverest of its genre and one of the most interesting. And when I read it, I just wanted to make a film of it.

JY – I see. What do you think of supernatural power?

SK – You mean, what do I really think of it?

JY – Yes.

SK – I don’t know, I think that there’s been so many interesting stories and reports of people who have had occult experiences; it's a bit like a famous astronomer who was talking about life in the universe, you know, the world and the universe and he said, I think there is [but] in either case I find the idea staggering. And I think I would be surprised in a way if there was, and would be surprised is there wasn’t.

[Note the quotation is from Arthur Clarke “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”]

JY – Oh. Do you have some kind of ability in supernatural powers?

SK – Say that again?

JY - Do you have the supernatural power ability?

SK – No I wish I did.

JY – [laughs] You know people said that you must have, in predicting the future and reading the minds of actors and [thinking of] image from another dimension.

SK – Well, I wish I could say that I did have supernatural powers [laughs]. No, I think I just try to do the best that I can and hope that people like it.

JY – Yes, what do you think of UFOs, flying saucers? Do you think alien people from another planet are visiting our earth?

SK – Well I’ve never really made up my mind. Again it belongs to that category of stories that it’s almost impossible to believe and yet at the same time, some of the sightings are so extraordinary and the people who have seen them seem so respectable and beyond any suspicions, that one can only say that I would like to believe it.

JY – Well Japanese people love your films, especially [2001: A Space Odyssey]. But people are wondering what is the meaning of last scene., You know, the old man who [is] lying on the bed, in the house? Could you give us an answer?

SK – Well I, I try to avoid doing this ever since the picture came out, because when you just say the ideas they sound foolish, whereas if they’re dramatized one feels it. But I’ll try, the idea was supposed to be that he is taken in by godlike entities; creatures of pure er energy and intelligence with no shape or form and they put him in what I suppose you could describe as a human zoo, to study him. He spends, his whole life from that point on in that room, and he has no sense of time, it just seems to happen, as it does in the film, And they choose this room which is a very inaccurate replica of French architecture, deliberately so. Inaccurate because one was suggesting that they had some idea of something that he might think was pretty but weren’t quite sure, just as we aren’t quite sure about what to do in zoos with animals, to give them what we think is their natural environment. And anyway, when they get finished with him, as happens in so many er myths of all cultures of the world, he is transformed into some kind of super being and sent back to um earth, transformed and made into some sort of superman. And we have to only guess what happens when he goes back. It is a pattern of a great deal of mythology. And that is what we were trying to um suggest.

JY – I see. And could I ask you the same question about The Shining, the last scene of The Shining, you showed the er picture and um

SK - [interrupting] Did you have any difficulty recognising Jack Nicholson?

JY - No, not me,

SK – You’re not sure what it was supposed to mean?

JY – Right

SK – It’s supposed to suggest a kind of evil reincarnation cycle, where he [Jack] is part of the hotel’s history, just as in the men’s room, he’s talking to the former caretaker [Grady], ghost of the former caretaker, who says to him, ‘you are the caretaker; you’ve always been the caretaker, I should know I’ve always been here.’ One is merely suggesting some kind of endless cycle of this evil reincarnation and um, also … well, that’s it, and it's the sort of thing that I think is better left unexplained, but since you asked me I tried to explain.

JY - Thank you, at the end of this interview could you give to the Japanese audience, your message to the Japanese audience?

SK – What do you mean?

JY – Anything to the Japanese people, any message to them?

SK – My best wishes and er, I can’t really understand your question.

JY – [Laughs] Oh, I’m sorry, er OK. Well … is there anything to say about your [Shining] (?).

SK – Oh I see what you mean. I never like to tell you anything about myself because I think that the pleasure that an audience receives in discovering things for themselves is a great deal of what one likes about good films. I don’t think to read [what] something is about, or to be told before I see it, or what it means. I think the best thing is when an audience looks at a film and wonders whether something that they have seen is an accident or if the director or writer meant them to know it, I think subtlety and allowing the audience to discover for themselves what it is the most important thing. That’s why I’ve always tried to avoid interviews and explanations about films. I think the film should be able to speak for itself.

JY – I quite understand. Thank you very much Mr Kubrick.

SK – Well is that all you want to talk about?

JY – It was excellent, Thank you very much

Unedited version

I have transcribed this version of the interview without editing it a great deal. That means presenting in the text many of the vocal artifacts that characterise spoken conversation.

[0’00’] Phone rings Julian Senior picks up phone handset.

JS – Hello.

[Unidentified female voice] - Hello a call from [indecipherable] possibly, will you accept the charges? As in a reverse charge call

SJ – Yes I certainly shall.

UFV – Go ahead please.

JS – Hello.

SK – Hi.

JS – Stanley … ah, ah, been looking for you, uh can you talk now? Do you have a moment?

SK – Well now is the time yes.

JS – Now is the time. Hold on a second, let me pass you on to Mr Yao, the producer who’s standing with me now.

SK- Is he ready now?

JS - Yes he’s ready.

SK – OK.

JS - One second [to Mr Yao] Stanley for you.

JY – Er, Hello Mr Kubrick.

SK – How do you do.

JY - A hah, how do you do sir. My name is Jun'ichi Yao.

SK – How do you do.

JY – Can I ask you some questions?

SK – Yes of course.

JY – Please ... well um, why did you choose a horror story for your newest movie?

SK – Well first of all let me apologise for not being able to er talk to you in person.

JY – I know.

SK – I am, er .. Julian probably explained to you, I’m running around...

JY – Yes.

SK – ...laboratories and sound studios and I’m actually calling you now from a telephone booth hsss.

JY – Yes, we understand your suggestion, yes [1’07’’]

SK – Why did I choose a horror story. Um .. well … uh … you could ask me that question about every film I’ve made and it would be difficult for me to answer. The um, I ah, I read er … a lot and um obviously hh always looking for a film story and um, it’s a little bit like er somebody saying er why did you eh ah hh, why did you fall in love with your wife.

JY – Yeah hhh

SK – Something happens when you read a story that you like er, it suggests the possibilities of the film and um, I thought that this er plot was one of the cleverest of its genre and er one of the most interesting and um, er, when I read it I just wanted to make a film of it.

JY – I see. What do you think of er supernatural power?

SK – You mean, what do I really think of it?

JY – Yes.

SK – I , I don’t know, I think that ah, there’s been so many interesting er stories and reports of people who have … er had occult experiences, er it's a bit like eh well there is a famous astronomer who was talking about um, er, life in the universe, you know, the world and the universe and he said um, sometimes I think um there is, and in either case I find er um the idea staggering. And I think I would be surprised in a way if there was, and would be surprised is there wasn’t.

[Note the quotation is from Arthur Clarke “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.”]

JY – Oh. Do you have some kind of ability in supernatural powers?

SK – Say that again?

JY - Do you have the supernatural power ability?

SK – No I wish I did.

JY – [laughs] You know people said that you must have in predicting the future and um reading the minds of actors and um … getting image from another dimension.

SK – Well, I wish I could say that I did have supernatural powers [laughs] No er, I think I just er try to do the best that I can and hope that people like it.

JY – Yes well ah do you, what do you think of ah UFOs, which is er flying saucers?

SK – Yeah [3’37’’]

JY – Do you think er, you know the alien people from another planet are visiting our earth?

SK – Well I’ve never really made up my mind um, again it belongs to that category of stories that um, that er, it’s almost impossible to believe and yet at the same time some of the sightings are so extraordinary and the people who have seen them seem so er, respectable and beyond er you know any suspicions, that um … one can only say that um, er, I would, you know I, I don’t know, I would like to believe it.

JY – Well Japanese people love your films, especially travel, er super, I’m sorry, ah  Travel 2001 [2001: A Space Odyssey]. But people are wondering what is the meaning of last scene. Erm, you know, the old man who, ah you know, lying on the bed, er, ah, in in the spa... er, own style house?

SK- Yeah.

JY- And ah, could you give us an answer? [4’47’’]

SK – Well I, I try to avoid doing this ever since the picture came out, because when you um, when you er just say er the ideas they sound er foolish, whereas if they’re dramatized one feels it, but I’ll try, I mean the idea was supposed to be that um he is er taken in by er, er godlike entities, er creatures of pure er energy and intelligence with no shape or form and um they put him er put him in what I suppose you could describe as a human zoo, and er, to study him and he spends, his whole life passes from that point on in that room, and he has no sense of time, um just seems to happen as it does in the film, And um … they choose this room which is er a very er inaccurate er replica of er French architecture, deliberately so, inaccurate because er, you know one was suggesting that they had some idea of something that he might think was pretty, but um weren’t quite sure, just as we aren’t … quite sure in what to do in zoos with animals, ah to um … try to give them what we think is their natural um you know environment. And um anyway, when they get finished with him, hh as happens in so many er myths of all cultures of the world, he is transformed into some kind of super being and sent back to um earth, um you know, errrr transformed and and made um you know into some sort of superman. And we have, we have to only guess what happens when he goes back. It is uh a pattern of a great deal of mythology. And that is what we were trying to um suggest. [6’52’’]

JY – I see. And could I ask you the same question about the er The Shining, the last scene of The Shining, you showed the er picture and um

SK - [interrupting] Did you have, I told Julian to ask you, did you have any difficulty recognising Jack Nicholson?

JY - No, not me,

SK – No

JY – No ... we we could define um Jack Nicholson that you know.

SK – You’re not sure what it was supposed to mean?

JY – Right [7’19’’]

SK – It’s supposed to suggest a kind of um … er evil reincarnation cycle. Erm, where um he is part of the hotel’s history, just as in the, in the men’s room, he’s talking to the former caretaker, ghost of the former caretaker, who says to him you know, you are the caretaker; you’ve always been the caretaker, I should know I’ve always been here. Ah one is merely suggesting some kind of um, you know, endless cycle of a, of this evil reincarnation and um, also … well, that’s it, and it's the sort of thing that I think is better  hhh left unexplained, but since you asked me I tried to explain. [8”20””]

JY - Thank you, at the end of this interview could you give to the er Japanese audience, your message to the Japanese audience, to the Japanese audience.

SK – What do you mean?

JY – Erm … anything to the Japanese people, no urm is there any message to them?

SK – Well...l

JY – From you.

SK – My best wishes and er, I can’t really understand your question.

JY – [Laughs] Oh, I’m sorry, er OK. Well … is there anything to say about your [Shining] (?).

SK – Oh I see what you mean, I, I never like to tell you anything about myself because I think that um, that um the pleasure that an audience receives in, in discovering things for themselves is er, is er a great deal of what one likes about good films. I don’t, I know myself, I don’t think um to read something is about, or to be told before I see it, or what it means. I think the best er thing is when an audience looks at a film and, and wonders whether something that they see is an accident or that the director or writer meant them to know it, I think subtlety and allowing the audience to discover for themselves what it is is the most important thing. That’s why I’ve always tried to avoid interviews and um and explanations about films. I think the film you know should be able to speak for itself.

JY – I understand, quite understand Thank you very much Mr Kubrick.

SK – Well is that all you want to talk about?

JY – It was excellent hhhh, Thank you very much

SK - Again I apologise for not being there. I hope my daughter is er helping you.

JY – Yeah, yes she is a very good help. Thank you very much again.

SK- Thank you.

JY - Thank you sir.

SK – Goodbye. [10’14’’]

 Jun'ichi Yao places phone handset on its cradle and walks offscreen.